1 00:00:00,220 --> 00:00:01,180 Speaker 0: ABC Listen. 2 00:00:01,660 --> 00:00:05,260 Speaker 0: Podcasts, radio, news, music and more. 3 00:00:09,220 --> 00:00:14,340 Speaker 0: Jules and Jez here and every week on Not Stupid we chat about the news in your feeds. 4 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,820 Speaker 0: As well as the weird stuff in the zeitgeist that just makes us go, huh? 5 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,620 Speaker 0: White House said, it's just getting weird at this point. 6 00:00:22,340 --> 00:00:23,180 Speaker 0: It's like, at this point? 7 00:00:23,220 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 0: Yeah, we've been here for a while buddy. 8 00:00:27,340 --> 00:00:29,820 Speaker 0: You can find Not Stupid on the ABC Listen app. 9 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 0: And now watch us on ABC iView. 10 00:00:37,580 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 0: This podcast was produced on the lands of the Uwabakal and Gadigal people. 11 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,180 Speaker 0: So there's this bridge, right? 12 00:00:46,860 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 0: It's one of five that links the east and west sides of the Iraqi city of Mosul. 13 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 0: The city is divided by the Tigris River which basically runs through it north to south. 14 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 0: It's the biggest bridge in terms of traffic capacity and it's the newest of the five, so it's called the fifth bridge. 15 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 0: For most of its lifespan this bridge wasn't really on anyone's radar. 16 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 0: until in 2016 it found itself in the unfortunate position of being right in the middle of this. 17 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 0: Mosul is the biggest battle anywhere on the planet this century in terms of the numbers of troops engaged but also in terms of the size of the city and the number of civilians around. 18 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:38,020 Speaker 0: The Battle of Mosul was waged between the Islamic State terrorist group and, I mean, basically everyone else. 19 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 0: The country's special forces reached the banks of the Tigris River for the first time, but the western side of the city was still under IS control. 20 00:01:46,860 --> 00:01:50,220 Speaker 0: During the battle, the fifth bridge did not fare very well. 21 00:01:51,060 --> 00:02:03,780 Speaker 0: Looking at satellite images, you can see that sometime in December 2016, a missile or an explosive punched a hole right through the middle of the span over the Tigris River. 22 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 0: By now the bridges had been destroyed. 23 00:02:06,420 --> 00:02:09,620 Speaker 0: You can see the water of the river straight through the hole. 24 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,260 Speaker 0: Not only that but the approaches at both ends have been destroyed too. 25 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 0: Six months later in July 2017 the Battle of Mosul was over. 26 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:27,460 Speaker 0: Satellite images reveal that by that time the bridge and most of the buildings around it had been destroyed. 27 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 0: But if you watch the satellite feed in time-lapse, you can see something incredible happen. 28 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:40,060 Speaker 0: Three months after the battle, cars are driving over the bridge again. 29 00:02:40,980 --> 00:02:50,900 Speaker 0: A makeshift bridge, little more than a long steel plank, has been laid across the hole and cars are driving carefully across it. 30 00:02:51,940 --> 00:02:57,140 Speaker 0: By five months after the battle, there's a little daily traffic jam at the makeshift plank bridge. 31 00:02:57,900 --> 00:03:03,620 Speaker 0: By the two-year mark there's a second plank bridge in place, allowing two-way traffic through. 32 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:11,740 Speaker 0: By the fifth anniversary of the end of the battle, construction is underway to actually fix the hole, not just lay planks over it. 33 00:03:12,300 --> 00:03:16,540 Speaker 0: And by the sixth anniversary, the bridge was fully reopened. 34 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 0: We can hear now the sound of the choir. 35 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 0: from the church again we can hear the bells again ring in Mosul and this is very powerful. 36 00:03:35,940 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 0: I think there is hope it will take time and the wounds of the city will take a lot of time to heal. 37 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,100 Speaker 0: But Mosul is on its way. 38 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:55,700 Speaker 0: Eight years on and all five bridges have reopened and in some parts of the city people have returned to living somewhat normal lives. 39 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 0: I've been thinking a lot about Mosul. 40 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:04,420 Speaker 0: Ever since news broke of a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas in Gaza. 41 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,860 Speaker 0: I think you're going to have tremendous success and Gaza is going to be rebuilt. 42 00:04:08,100 --> 00:04:13,060 Speaker 0: In the ceasefire agreement, there is no mention of a plan to actually rebuild Gaza. 43 00:04:13,900 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 0: But the US President Donald Trump is confident that someone is going to stump up the cash. 44 00:04:18,820 --> 00:04:21,940 Speaker 0: And you have some very wealthy countries, as you know, over there. 45 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 0: And it would take a small fraction of their their wealth to do that. 46 00:04:27,940 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 0: But I think they want to do it. 47 00:04:37,420 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 0: So what kind of money and what kind of time are we talking about here? 48 00:04:43,300 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 0: I want to look at this in the context of Mosul, the last city destroyed by war. 49 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,300 Speaker 0: What can its story tell us about what's to come for Gaza? 50 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 0: I'm Matt Bevan, and this is If You're Listening. 51 00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 0: So it's not uncommon in a mosque for a visiting Islamic leader to speak during Friday prayers. 52 00:05:08,940 --> 00:05:10,980 Speaker 0: Perhaps a famous imam is in town. 53 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 0: You might have him come and give a sermon. 54 00:05:14,020 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 0: Well, this happened at the Al-Nuri Grand Mosque one Friday in Mosul in 2014. 55 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,700 Speaker 0: This man, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, had never appeared in public before. 56 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 0: But his reputation... had preceded him. 57 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:39,700 Speaker 0: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is the second most wanted man in the world, with a 10 million dollar reward posted by the US. 58 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 0: He was the head of the world's most terrifying terrorist group, ISIS. 59 00:05:46,940 --> 00:05:48,540 Speaker 0: In a word, ISIS. 60 00:05:49,340 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 0: In three words, holy... ISIS. 61 00:05:52,500 --> 00:05:57,780 Speaker 0: ISIS militants are fighting for control of Tikrit and have been in control of Fallujah for five months. 62 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 0: These days we know that ISIS is extremely... Bad news when it comes to your town, but back in 2014, ISIS was kind of a mysterious group of hyper-religious Toyota Hilux fans who had seemingly come out of nowhere. 63 00:06:13,260 --> 00:06:17,020 Speaker 0: Baghdadi and his men now rule over a territory larger than Great Britain. 64 00:06:17,500 --> 00:06:24,460 Speaker 0: And in June of that year, they arrived at the outskirts of Mosul, an ancient city of 1.8 million people. 65 00:06:25,060 --> 00:06:28,780 Speaker 0: In the city centre is the 850-year-old Al-Nuri Mosque. 66 00:06:29,420 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 0: which is world famous for its squat and extremely crooked minaret affectionately known as al-hadba or the hunchback. 67 00:06:38,500 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 0: The minaret is so significant and famous that it features on the Iraqi currency and it's responsible for Mosul's nickname the hunchback or humped city. 68 00:06:49,420 --> 00:06:55,780 Speaker 0: It was at the top of this minaret that ISIS raised its flag and it was inside the mosque. 69 00:06:56,280 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 0: that al-Baghdadi came out of the shadows. 70 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,340 Speaker 0: Baghdadi's speech was a pivotal moment. 71 00:07:05,940 --> 00:07:08,900 Speaker 0: He's declaring himself a leader of the world's Muslims. 72 00:07:09,420 --> 00:07:19,660 Speaker 0: With a cheap pedestal fan spinning behind him to keep him cool, he declared the creation of the Islamic State, a caliphate with him as the leader. 73 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:22,820 Speaker 0: Islamic State. 74 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 0: essentially stamped itself as having come out of the shadows, no longer being a terrorist organisation but really being what it claimed to be, a state. 75 00:07:33,340 --> 00:07:38,700 Speaker 0: At the moment they control the lives of 8 million people across northern Syria and northern Iraq. 76 00:07:39,300 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 0: Now this was like 25 global crises ago but you probably remember that these guys were very very unpleasant. 77 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 0: For the past few months Islamic State has held these men women and children hostage as human shields. 78 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 0: An Iraqi police chief first blindfolded then beheaded. 79 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:05,100 Speaker 0: They were so unpleasant that a coalition made up of basically everybody came together to take them down. 80 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 0: The advance of ISIS could see the United States and Iran fighting on the same side. 81 00:08:10,900 --> 00:08:18,500 Speaker 0: For two years, the anti-ISIS coalition gradually pushed the terror group back, boxing them into the city of Mosul. 82 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:24,780 Speaker 0: At this aid station just 15 kilometres east of Mosul, there's a steady stream of casualties. 83 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,220 Speaker 0: Mosul is one of the oldest cities in the world. 84 00:08:27,580 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 0: It's known in the Bible, Torah and Quran as Nineveh. 85 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:38,820 Speaker 0: The buildings are a mixture of old and new, tightly packed, particularly in the area close to the Tigris River. 86 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 0: The urban density in the old city around the hunchback minaret made it difficult to penetrate which is why this was where ISIS was going to make its last stand. 87 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 0: As the Iraqi army moves up from the south Kurdish troops attack IS towns to the east and north of Mosul. 88 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 0: Gradually they pushed into the center of a city that was still full of hundreds of thousands of civilians. 89 00:09:09,460 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 0: Eventually the part of the city East of the Tigris River was reclaimed by the Iraqi forces. 90 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 0: The battle for Mosul is only half one. 91 00:09:18,740 --> 00:09:21,540 Speaker 0: IS still controls the western side of the city. 92 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,220 Speaker 0: So the five bridges across the river were blown. 93 00:09:24,740 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 0: ISIS was trapped in the old city on the western side of the river. 94 00:09:28,860 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 0: The most densely populated urban area in Mosul. 95 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,500 Speaker 0: Day by day thousands of families stream out of West Mosul. 96 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,700 Speaker 0: shell-shocked, traumatised and utterly exhausted. 97 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 0: This is the point where the similarities with the situation in Gaza get really obvious. 98 00:09:47,180 --> 00:09:54,060 Speaker 0: ISIS militants were surrounded inside a densely populated urban area which they had fortified and booby-trapped. 99 00:09:54,400 --> 00:10:02,500 Speaker 0: The risk of civilian casualties is incredibly high because IS fighters deliberately hide in densely populated areas. 100 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:14,740 Speaker 0: The majority of fighting was happening amongst busy streets lined with shops and apartments and the Good Guy Coalition, which included Australia, tried their best to avoid civilian casualties. 101 00:10:15,060 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 0: The degree of complexity in the current phase of the operation will be heightened also by the potential presence of up to 750,000 civilians who may be remaining in West Mosul. 102 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 0: But avoiding civilian deaths turned out to be impossible. 103 00:10:30,980 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 0: Eight months into the battle, two Australian jets dropped bombs on ISIS targets, which killed up to 35 civilians, including destroying a house where 11 members of a single family lived. 104 00:10:43,700 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 0: Members of Amjad al-Saffah's extended family lived in the house, including five of his brothers and sisters. 105 00:10:51,060 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 0: Like Gaza, thousands of innocent people were killed in Mosul. 106 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,300 Speaker 0: You don't get to drop bombs on cities and towns and not kill civilians. 107 00:10:58,500 --> 00:11:02,100 Speaker 0: And it took a month before it was safe enough to dig those bodies out. 108 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 0: But unlike Gaza, Mosul was teeming with international journalists, documenting the destruction and daily death toll. 109 00:11:11,020 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 0: Questions over Australia's secrecy in war. 110 00:11:14,380 --> 00:11:15,740 Speaker 0: are now being raised. 111 00:11:16,060 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 0: In our view there's just no real transparency from Australia here and there's no real accountability. 112 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:26,780 Speaker 0: The presence of these journalists meant that this particular family killed in an airstrike had their deaths investigated. 113 00:11:27,340 --> 00:11:29,700 Speaker 0: Everyone in Iraq and Syria has a cell phone. 114 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:35,460 Speaker 0: Everybody is taking videos, photographs, uploading stuff onto the internet. 115 00:11:36,220 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 0: So we know a great deal about civilians and it's become much more difficult for militaries to ignore that information now. 116 00:11:45,540 --> 00:11:54,940 Speaker 0: Rather than become anonymous numbers in an increasing death toll, the family members' names and photos were on the news and the Australian military was forced to answer questions about it. 117 00:11:56,180 --> 00:12:04,580 Speaker 0: Several member states of the anti-ISIS coalition subsequently held investigations into civilian casualties from airstrikes in Mosul. 118 00:12:04,620 --> 00:12:13,180 Speaker 0: I don't think that post ceasefire there is going to be similar investigations in Israel. 119 00:12:14,420 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 0: Gradually, the noose around ISIS's neck pulled tighter and tighter as they retreated closer and closer to the Al-Nuri Mosque with their black flag still raised above the hunchback minaret. 120 00:12:29,220 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 0: A block-by-block battle in the west of the city. 121 00:12:32,220 --> 00:12:37,380 Speaker 0: Here, inching ever closer to the Al-Nuri Mosque, there are snipers on both sides. 122 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,220 Speaker 0: ISIS decided if they couldn't have it, nobody could. 123 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 0: And late yesterday... As Iraqi security forces closed in on that mosque about a hundred meters away, ISIS blew it up. 124 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 0: A mosque which sat there since the 12th century, ISIS blew it up. 125 00:12:56,860 --> 00:13:04,380 Speaker 0: Now al-Baghdadi escaped before the end and lived in hiding for two years before the US finally got him. 126 00:13:04,940 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 0: Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is dead. 127 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:17,100 Speaker 0: But really the caliphate ended that day with the destruction of the Al-Nuri mosque in July 2017. 128 00:13:18,180 --> 00:13:20,900 Speaker 0: The nine-month battle of Mosul was over. 129 00:13:21,540 --> 00:13:25,540 Speaker 0: A battle which was called the biggest urban battle since World War II. 130 00:13:25,580 --> 00:13:37,140 Speaker 0: Death toll estimates vary, but it's something like 20,000 combatants and 10,000 civilians killed. 131 00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 0: One million Mosul residents were displaced. 132 00:13:40,620 --> 00:13:48,620 Speaker 0: Looking at drone footage of the destroyed mosque you can see that it's simply the epicentre of a widespread catastrophe. 133 00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:58,380 Speaker 0: Almost as far as the eye can see there are roofs caved in, cars burned out, collapsed walls, whole buildings were taken down. 134 00:14:00,100 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 0: This mound of rubble is all the remains of a family home in the city of Mosul. 135 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,460 Speaker 0: In the distance you can see the fifth bridge. 136 00:14:10,140 --> 00:14:15,820 Speaker 0: one of its spans sagging, a hole blown straight through the road surface. 137 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:23,820 Speaker 0: It looks really very bad but it's hard to judge the scale of destruction from drone footage alone. 138 00:14:24,860 --> 00:14:32,740 Speaker 0: Thankfully the United Nations has a unit called UNOSAT whose job is to objectively quantify this kind of thing. 139 00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:36,420 Speaker 0: Often in times of crisis it can be very chaotic. 140 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 0: But once you get the satellite image, you are at least sure to get objective information. 141 00:14:41,540 --> 00:14:43,900 Speaker 0: They used satellite images to assess damage. 142 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 0: In Mosul, UNOSAT counted 19,888 damaged buildings, of which 4,773 were totally destroyed. 143 00:14:56,300 --> 00:14:59,660 Speaker 0: Most of the damage was concentrated in the old city. 144 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 0: Of course, many of the buildings were apartment buildings, meaning that the number of actual homes destroyed was more like 50,000. 145 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 0: Approximately 8 million tons of rubble was left by the battle, much of it riddled with explosives and booby traps and covering up thousands of human bodies. 146 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:28,020 Speaker 0: But there was a strong motivation in Mosul to rebuild what had been destroyed and bring the city back to life. 147 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 0: And what you see on the streets today is people who are happy to be liberated starting the process of getting on with their lives. 148 00:15:35,900 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 0: Within days, the sound of gunfire had been replaced by the sound of jackhammers. 149 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 0: And those jackhammers have now been at work for eight years. 150 00:15:45,620 --> 00:15:54,820 Speaker 0: If you go to Mosul now, you'll see that the Hunchback Minaret and the Al-Nuri Mosque have been rebuilt by UNESCO with funding from the United Arab Emirates. 151 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,940 Speaker 0: We are very proud to do it for the community. 152 00:15:59,580 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 0: The minaret belongs to the 12th century and this is very important. 153 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:10,260 Speaker 0: They painstakingly restored the minaret to its original crooked shape using original bricks. 154 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 0: Other surrounding churches and mosques have also been rebuilt. 155 00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 0: After eight years of tireless jackhammering and construction, the bridges have been rebuilt too. 156 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 0: Most of the city, particularly east of the river, has returned to normality. 157 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 0: But in the old city, at the centre of the fighting around the Hunchback Minaret, thousands of homes are still in ruins. 158 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 0: Most of the destruction has not been cleared. 159 00:16:35,740 --> 00:16:46,140 Speaker 0: Despite a Japanese-funded effort to build a plant capable of recycling debris into building materials, there are still explosives hidden under the rubble. 160 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:52,220 Speaker 0: Some reports indicate that as little as 7% of the homes destroyed in the battle have been rebuilt. 161 00:16:54,180 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 0: And it's important to note that's the level of progress in an area totally controlled by the sovereign, internationally recognized Iraqi government, with the cooperation of global partners and local citizens without any interference from ISIS. 162 00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:12,900 Speaker 0: But despite all that, it's still slow going. 163 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:19,300 Speaker 0: So that's the situation in Mosul, eight years after ISIS was defeated there. 164 00:17:20,460 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 0: How does that compare to what the people in Gaza face? 165 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 0: Well, we have a bit of an idea because Unosat has been keeping an eye on the war in Gaza from orbit. 166 00:17:31,660 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 0: And look, it's bad. 167 00:17:34,220 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 0: It's so much worse than Mosul, it's hard to wrap your head around. 168 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 0: Here's the latest info we have. 169 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 0: First of all, on the destruction, it is now in the region of 84%. 170 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,860 Speaker 0: 84% of all buildings in infrastructure. 171 00:17:48,060 --> 00:17:53,940 Speaker 0: In certain parts of Gaza, like in Gaza City, it's even up to 92% of the destruction. 172 00:17:54,440 --> 00:18:08,660 Speaker 0: The UNOSAT analysis for the entire strip is a couple of months old, but they identified 192,812 damaged structures of which more than half have been totally destroyed. 173 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 0: The United Nations says there are tens of millions of tons of rubble in Gaza, much of it contaminated by unexploded ordnance and asbestos. 174 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 0: Also under the rubble lie thousands of unrecovered bodies. 175 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:29,900 Speaker 0: It's hard to visualise these numbers so why don't we just do a straight comparison of the numbers in Gaza to the numbers from Mosul. 176 00:18:30,580 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 0: According to the UN the war in Gaza has created 6.8 times more debris from 9.6 times more damaged buildings than the battle in Mosul. 177 00:18:42,380 --> 00:18:48,100 Speaker 0: In terms of buildings totally destroyed Gaza has 21 times more than Mosul did. 178 00:18:49,020 --> 00:18:58,940 Speaker 0: And clearing all that debris is going to be much harder than it was in Mosul because UNOSAT has assessed that 77% of Gaza's road network has been damaged. 179 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:07,020 Speaker 0: $70 billion. 180 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 0: But really, that figure is almost meaningless. 181 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 0: Even if someone transferred all that money into the UN Development Authority's bank account tomorrow, there are way bigger challenges than money. 182 00:19:21,540 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 0: For starters, before you can even start building, you've got a truly extraordinary amount of debris to clear and nowhere to clear it to. 183 00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:39,420 Speaker 0: The size is if you build a 12 meter wall around Central Park and fold that with rubble, that's about the amount of rubble that needs to be removed. 184 00:19:39,820 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 0: Removed to where? 185 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:43,460 Speaker 0: Is Israel going to take it? 186 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:44,260 Speaker 0: Is Egypt? 187 00:19:44,860 --> 00:19:46,820 Speaker 0: Are they going to just push it into the Mediterranean Sea? 188 00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 0: And what are you going to do with the hundreds of thousands of people who are currently using that rubble as shelter? 189 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,100 Speaker 0: There is no other place. 190 00:19:58,340 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 0: There are no shelters. 191 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 0: They promised to bring us tents, but they didn't. 192 00:20:02,220 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 0: Every person wants to find shelter. 193 00:20:04,260 --> 00:20:06,180 Speaker 0: I took refuge in my house. 194 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:08,900 Speaker 0: It's better than sitting in places where I can't live. 195 00:20:09,180 --> 00:20:12,100 Speaker 0: Two of this man's sons have been killed by Israeli bombs. 196 00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:16,620 Speaker 0: His daughter is trying to find her toys in their ruined house. 197 00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:23,260 Speaker 0: The thing I miss the most in my house is my bedroom and my toys, my stuff and my bed. 198 00:20:25,060 --> 00:20:32,980 Speaker 0: As it stands, the current ceasefire agreement lays out no plan for what happens to the displaced Palestinians in the short term. 199 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 0: Can they go and live in Israel or Egypt or somewhere else while their houses are rebuilt? 200 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 0: And who is actually going to do that work? 201 00:20:42,060 --> 00:20:42,740 Speaker 0: The Israelis? 202 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 0: The Americans? 203 00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:46,500 Speaker 0: Hamas, which is apparently still around? 204 00:20:47,660 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 0: How would the locals feel about those solutions? 205 00:20:51,920 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 0: The UN has started clearing some of the rubble but it's only to try and clear the roads and get hospitals and other vital services back up and running. 206 00:21:01,260 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 0: They're not even touching the destroyed houses. 207 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,500 Speaker 0: When the UN talks about that job they get extremely vague. 208 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,660 Speaker 0: It's a really cumbersome process and will take many many years to complete. 209 00:21:12,020 --> 00:21:12,740 Speaker 0: How many years? 210 00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:20,180 Speaker 0: You know I mean I think one are looking probably in the region of a decade or decades and even longer. 211 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 0: Longer than decades? 212 00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:24,980 Speaker 0: I think he just means several decades there. 213 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 0: but still even if the ceasefire holds and the bloodshed in Gaza really is over we now have two million people living in a tightly packed pile of debris penned in by Israel, Egypt and the sea. 214 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 0: The situation is exponentially worse than Mosul, and in Mosul they've only rebuilt 7% of homes over the course of eight years. 215 00:21:53,740 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 0: There is no plan in the ceasefire agreement for what to do about this enormous problem. 216 00:22:00,020 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 0: And if it's not dealt with properly, people are going to be very upset. 217 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,980 Speaker 0: And people being upset is what started this whole mess in the first place. 218 00:22:18,340 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 0: If you're listening is written by me, Matt Bevan. 219 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 0: It's produced by Adair Shepard. 220 00:22:22,060 --> 00:22:24,580 Speaker 0: Supervising producer is Cara Jensen McKinnon. 221 00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:31,420 Speaker 0: As you might be able to hear, my voice is mostly back, so I'm capable of actually answering the questions you've sent in to us. 222 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:36,700 Speaker 0: There is too many to fit in one episode, but we'll answer a big chunk of them on Tuesday. 223 00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 0: But one of the things that a lot of people are asking about is the AI boom, and whether it's a bubble about to burst. 224 00:22:44,060 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 0: Lots of people are comparing it to the dot-com bubble of the late 1990s. 225 00:22:48,180 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 0: But what was that all about? 226 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:57,660 Speaker 0: And apart from both things being computer-related, are the two booms actually alike? 227 00:22:58,580 --> 00:23:00,300 Speaker 0: That's coming on Thursday. 228 00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:14,220 Speaker 0: I'll catch you next week.